Your Changing Role – From Family Member to Caregiver with Susannah Brade-Waring

Melanie:

Welcome to the Family Carers Podcast where we help mums, dads, aunts, uncles, daughters, sons, friends, in fact anyone caring for a family member or loved one to feel supported in their role and connected to their community.

This week we're joined by Susanna Braid-Waring, the Managing Director of Aspirin Business Solutions. Aspirin Business Solutions is a family business that focuses on motivation, leadership and management development. In this episode we explore how Susanna juggles work and the pull of increasing family needs, such as stepping into the role of family carer and that shift in dynamics, Getting the work-life balance right, her own experience of being a carer, the impact this can have on health and well-being, and self-care and recovering. 

So if you're interested in learning more about Susanna's journey as a business owner and carer and the challenges she overcame, then this episode's for you. I'm Melanie Cohen. Stay with us. 

Melanie:

So, I'd like to introduce you to Susanna. Hi, Susanna. How are you today?

Susanna:

I'm very good, thank you. How are you doing?

Melanie:

I'm good, thank you. I'm good. So, for anybody that doesn't know you, would you like to introduce yourself?

Susanna:

Yes, I'm Susanna Braidwearing, the founder and managing director, kind of the business motivator of Aspirin Business Solutions. We are a family business, so myself, my husband and our eldest son work in the business and we've been working in this area for 14 years now.

Melanie:

Wow, okay, so family dynamics really are your thing then, working with your son as well?

Susanna:

Yes.

Okay, perfect.

Susanna:

And we'll find out because I used to work with my dad, so it really adds into the family dynamics.

Melanie:

Okay, it certainly does, doesn't it? So, let's talk initially about your role in your work life, your professional life. Many people who are providing support for family members are also juggling that with other commitments such as working. So I know that this is something that you've personal experience of and also experience, I'm sure, with the people that you coach. So would you like to tell us a little bit more about that?

Susanna:

So would you like me to talk about how long I've been caring, what are those two roles?

Melanie:

So let's talk first about the experience you've got with clients perhaps that have got that split role with trying to juggle work and changing family dynamics or increasing needs of aging parents, so I'm sure you've seen that in your professional life.

Susanna:

Yeah, it's not a lot I focus on though.

Melanie:

Okay, so let's talk about your own personal experience then of juggling being a business owner with caring for your dad.

Susanna:

So, in terms of my role, I am the leader in the business. It's a role that I've needed to accept. It's quite tricky in a family of going, who's going to be the boss? But you do need to have someone who's actually steering the boat. It can't be a consensus, otherwise you go round in circles. And that means that I recognise and my team recognise that in a sense I'm the bottleneck. But it also, like many of the people, the business is my adventure. So I'm the one who actually is the pivot in terms of the skill set, the curiosity, the ambition, and everybody else has chosen to join me. So we're talking about being in the boat. It's definitely my boat and they want to join me on this journey. So we recognize as a team that I'm the bottleneck and that their job is to support me as much as possible, but that doesn't help when you add in the additional responsibilities then of being a carer. And that comes in, for me, in two ways. The first way is almost the business sense around it, because there's not just the emotional caring. and almost the physical, domestic kind of stuff. There's also the family affairs and almost more the, what I would almost say, like the business kind of side of it, the financial, et cetera. But I'm the best person to do that. I'm the best person to do more of the emotional stuff because, again, that's my training. That's what I train in. And thirdly, because it's my parents and that trust really, as strong as it is, because we've been married 30 years. So, you know, as strong as that relationship is with my husband and our son, the number one trust still sits with me. So, yes, it was an extra addition to my already bulging responsibilities.

Melanie:

Yeah, I can only begin to imagine. So just rewinding slightly, because you mentioned earlier that originally you worked with your dad as well. So that's been a huge shift in dynamics. Can you just talk us through a little bit through that journey of that shift from working alongside him to where you are today with providing him with care?

Susanna:

Yeah, I think I was exceptionally lucky to be able to work with my dad. Like many people, I'd come out of university, didn't know what I wanted to do, did a few jobs, and my dad at the time, he and some business partners had had a business, grown it, sold it, and was twiddling his thumbs. He set up another business and I just started helping him out as you do. That turned into a career for me of 16 years and a second business which he founded with other business partners. And we grew from a startup to 10 million pounds of turnover and through a management buyout. And I decided not to be part of the management buyout because my goal was to help my dad and to do what I enjoy doing, which actually was to build a business. It was where I found what I love to do. But my dad was super professional. It was never dad. So I still, I always called him Colin. I still call him Colin and dad interchangeably now, which people find really confusing.

Melanie:

It's the two different roles, isn't it? Those two different hats.

Susanna:

And for me, those boundaries have taught me so much. So I was very privileged to be able to have that really good governance, I would say, in terms of you turn up to work and you do a good job. You demonstrate your that you're very trustworthy in doing your job and you're not there for family. But that's also meant that when it comes to then caring for my dad, A, I have more understanding and more of an existing relationship with some of the people who are involved in some of their stuff like wealth management, for example, and solicitors. But equally, it means that Dad and I start with a foundation of trust and understanding of actually what his preferences would be, even though he can't communicate those now himself.

Melanie:

So, the journey from point A, where you were in a business, professional relationship together, you worked together, to where you find yourself now. Was that a really gradual change and how kind of did that manifest as it went? I mean, did you kind of realize as it was happening what was happening? Was it a very, sounds like you and your dad have got very open communication. That's obviously something that developed from working together for such a long time, which I'm sure is really helpful now. But yeah, was it sort of like a conscious journey or was it something that just kind of happened to you?

Susanna:

They're in completely different phases. So that business was, did the management buy out in 2007, 2008. Dad exited at that point, which was the point of it. He was 65 at that point. I decided that I would leave and set up my own business by the time I was 40, which coincided with that point. so I decided not to be an ongoing shareholder and exit and We decided to move down here now mum and dad had got a place down here. So we're familiar with the area. Yeah we were living in Nottinghamshire at the time and So we moved down here mum and dad not long after then moved their main home down here But we kind of had a bit of an arm's-length relationship a lot of independence, okay? in our family. So we would see them once or twice a week for Sunday dinner. That was pretty much it. And I would say we were parent-child rather than friends for a long time. For a long time that was a relationship. and it was only in the last few years when my dad was starting to struggle that mum asked me to help and take some appointments and that's when I recognised what was kind of going on. And maybe I didn't want to see during Covid because I think some of the symptoms were there during COVID because we were taking their shopping, but when you're trying to keep your business afloat, and when it's family business and the kind of work that we do, you can't furlough yourself because your customers will go elsewhere. So when you're trying to keep your business afloat to be able to feed your family, you don't need the extra responsibility of going, there's a whole thing over there that I'm not even going to look at right now.

Melanie:

Yeah, absolutely. So talk to us about that things clearly progressed and you ended up becoming more involved with providing care and support for your parents. So how did you, how have you managed to juggle all of that with all of your commitments within the family business?

Susanna:

I think what's really helped is mum involved me early on when my dad was having the memory assessments and we were very, very lucky to be able to have all of those, all the scans and everything else because that meant that we had a very clear diagnosis and I was involved with the professionals right from the beginning, so very clear understanding of what was happening and what the there isn't a treatment, but what you can do to be able to improve things. And so that's where I started very comfortably in that what's the strategy, what's the plan, what are the kind of the almost like the tick list of actions. The management side of things. Exactly. So how are we managing this bit? And what then became far more apparent is as soon as I stepped in, mum's anxiety kicked off. So mum, I wouldn't have said was an anxious person, but I think she'd been holding it together for too long on her own. And I think as soon as I stepped in, she relaxed and went into full-blown anxiety. So in many ways, it's mum who we've been providing much more of the emotional care for, rather than my dad, although it's my dad who has a diagnosis.

Melanie:

Okay. Yeah, interesting. And like we've talked about before, that whole shift in dynamics, and it's an ever-changing shift, isn't it, as things evolve, things develop, as, like you've said, the emotional support that your mum needed, what you thought you were going to be needed for, perhaps has changed and has become something completely different. So I think I'd really like you to talk to our listeners about the different elements that can be considered as part of caring for ageing parents because you very eloquently told us about your involvement there and your comfort zone with managing how you were going to deal with that as a family. the strategies, dealing with the professional interactions and medical appointments, et cetera. And I think that it can sometimes be easy for people to imagine that if they're going to provide care for a parent, that it might be that practical, hands-on, day-to-day stuff. Is that how things have evolved for you? Talk to us about how you support your parents, what that looks like for you on a day-to-day basis.

Susanna:

So I think what it looks like now compared to what it looked like at the beginning are quite different. So maybe I've taught you through some of the stages of that. I think the first thing is that I was very cautious about treading on their toes and it was very much establishing that position of what do you want me to do? What help do you need?

Melanie:

Really good place to start rather than assuming.

Susanna:

Well, and my dad has always been the boss, right, so he's always been, he likes to have control, he likes to make his decisions, and it was trying to be very respectful of what do you need, what help do you need, and also then trying to get some kind of gauge on where can I actually add some value to this, or maybe things that you need but you don't know that you need, and also where maybe we might differ in our views of how best to achieve that as well. That's kind of where we started. At the time, whilst my dad was having memory issues, it quite quickly became clear that he was also having some difficulties with communication as well. And that's really accelerated. So I think that was really challenging to undergoing. If I think about one of the themes that we're looking at in our work now is happy high-performing teams. So if I think about happy high-performing parents, I want them to be happy. What does that look like? What support can I give them to be happy? What does high-performing look like? Because what high performing looks like to me is very different to high performing to them so it was almost establishing like a baseline and at the time they'd stopped all the things like going to the gym and they would do that and also working around mum's fears around going can dad go to the gym on his own will he wander off And I have no idea because I've never been a carer before, never dealt with dementia before. I've no idea what the stages are and what that kind of looks like either. And again, to some extent, I didn't want to know because a lot of what you read in the literature and what is portrayed, I think, very unfairly in films and on TV is the very late stages as opposed to the early stages. And that's scary. So I think that has progressed. And also then dealing with, I think it's been really important with my mum to really balance out the amount of challenge we provide for her and the amount of support. Because it's very easy to do everything for her, but I don't think it's very healthy for us to do everything for her. And then recognising when that challenge is too much. So what to me seems like a daft thing is she won't use the oven. She won't use the washing machine because she's afraid of the consequences of it going wrong or having a leak or something else. And as much as we've kind of pushed that, we've then gone, relax, that's too much of a challenge because she's also dealing with everything with my dad. So we're just always establishing the boundaries of what can she do, what won't she do, what can we push and encourage her to do and where do we back off and go, right, either we'll support you or we'll let it go and it doesn't matter. and that bit of doesn't matter is also quite challenging because I'll be going do this and do this and do this and sometimes you have to go no no it's too much just back off and as long as she's happy leave it at that.

Melanie:

So did that, has that come naturally from the beginning or has somebody or something helped you take that step back to get the perspective because I think quite often what we hear is that when you're so involved in a situation and you're really worrying and trying to provide support for ageing parents that it's very difficult to get that perspective. So talk to us about how you've managed to get there because it sounds like you've got it sorted.

Susanna:

This is what I do for a living, right? And the reason I do it for a living is because I was terrible at it. I really wanted just to get things done, to tick things off the list. I didn't really understand people, so I think I lacked that. Some people get people, and they understand why they do certain things. I didn't. But I really cared about people, so this is kind of what I've spent the last, 20 plus years really focusing on and specialising in. So that's why we focus on motivation because I want to understand not just personality but what motivates people. Why do people do what they do? Why do they avoid doing what they do? What sits behind that? So I can start to have a better understanding and that helps me to understand and be more empathetic of where it's coming from. So I'm not just looking at the symptom and behaviour but actually what's behind it. So I've really worked on that bit. I've really worked on the pacing because when you're trying to figure out a problem and a solution, it's easier for us to jump to the solution and then just go, right, just do this and it's sorted without recognising that other people aren't even on the same page as you. So you have to go right back to the beginning to go, actually, this is your goal, not my goal. What do you want? I have this, you know, thing about the happy, the high performing. So actually, what would I like to add in there that kind of I think will be beneficial to you and everybody else? Because when somebody I think it's not just a diagnosis for me of dementia. I think it's also, as I say, that with mum and the anxiety, when somebody has that and you choose to get involved as a as a child, then it has a massive impact on your life and your work and there's a cost to it, there are sacrifices to be made. So you've just got to balance all of those things up to work out And I think I'm very good at continuing checking myself. Am I doing this for me? How do I want people to feel? How do I want them to feel? Is this adding value to it? I mean, even yesterday we were going out the door and I just had to step outside because they were just taking so long faffing around getting their shoes on. And I stood outside going, this isn't helpful. But I also knew it was OK because on the balance, if I get 9 out of 10 things right, it's OK if I mess up occasionally.

Melanie:

Yeah, absolutely. a bit of empathy for yourself, kindness for yourself. Yes. So can we just rewind a minute? Because I noticed that you really carefully chose the word choose choice. You really carefully used that when you were talking about about choosing to get involved and help with your parents. I think for a lot of people, it can sometimes feel so overwhelming that it doesn't feel like they have a choice. Talk to us about how you framed that around the choice element.

Susanna:

So I think at the beginning I didn't realise what I was signing up to and so it didn't feel like too much of an imposition. And I think we're three and a half years down the line. And I've continually had to check in on that bit, especially, as I say, more with mum's anxiety and the continually phoning, which she doesn't do now, of creating those kind of boundaries and then going, OK, actually, I like the phrase of kind of step in or step out and either step up or step out. So I've already chosen to step in. Am I now going to do it and do it with love or am I going to do it with resentment? And the resentment doesn't work because you're always going, I don't have time for this, this isn't fair, this is not okay. Or you go, okay, that's not who I want to be. How much can I give you and give you from a place of gifting without expecting anything back? That's not easy, right? It's taken decades.

Melanie:

Yeah, not easy. And not easy when you're also trying to reframe what's happening, deal with the emotional deterioration in the health of your parents, but also juggling everything else. Like you mentioned, you've got a son and your husband and your business and everything else. So it's not like you can just dedicate all of your time to trying to get your head around this new situation and how you're going to frame it. But you're also trying to juggle everything else in the background too, not even in the background, in the foreground. So another thing I think would be really helpful for the listeners is if you can share some of your wisdom around how you manage or how people might be able to manage to take that step back and find some perspective and why it's important to do that.

Susanna:

It's a big question. I know. I might go wide here. So I think the first thing for me is about what's the relationship. Actually, before I even start with what's the relationship with my parents, what's the relationship with me? Who do I want to be? What's important to me? And what kind of daughter do I want to be? and for me integrity is really key so having the same version of me show up in all those kind of things is really important. So I knew I wanted to do something and I knew that I had skills that I could add and would be of benefit and I do think especially working with my dad, I recognise how much he's helped me so I wanted to also be able to give back with that as well. I think with mums it's always a bit trickier because a lot of their help is more invisible, behind the scenes, but there's definitely a degree of kind of going, actually I want to be able to give you something and do something for you. I also recognise that that needs to be within my own skill set because it's one of these These moments don't usually come along in a really nice and planned way. Usually, as I say, you're trying to achieve something, get to an appointment, get out the door, make sure they're eating well, make sure they're drinking, make sure they're taking their medicines. There's an urgency and importance around them, which actually adds to almost a level of urgency, and that can create tension and conflict. So if I'm also coming from a place of going, I don't know what I'm talking about either, That's really tricky, so I engaged expert assistance really early on. Just starting off with, we now have two carers, mum and dad, and the first lady just did an hour a week, but it was to establish a relationship. established a trust really, really early on of just going in, doing some shopping, maybe taking them out. But they've now known that person for three years. So there's a high level of trust around that. So getting that support team around me, both for that, all of the, almost the domestic kind of side of things, but also the professional side of things. So we also got in place the lasting power of attorney. Very fortunately, mum and dad got that just before or during kind of COVID. and before dad's symptoms started to appear. So I'm very fortunate that we had Latin Power of Attorney, both for the financial and for the medical for both my parents, which then makes life so much easier to be able to work then with authority. And so in terms of that's helped me kind of establish my role of what I was going to do. And then it's about going, how much time does this need, and there's some level of kind of regularity. Because we're a family business, I at some point have the conversation with my husband and eldest son, who's in the business, to then say, we're going to take a hit on this because I'm taking more time out, so we just need to accept we're not going to have the same turnover, we're not going to have the same profitability. and that might last 12 months, 18 months, I don't know, but we just need to do it and we need to just agree that now so that that's not another expectation on me that actually, and on us, that we can't fulfil. So we decided to some degree what we were going to do. what the sacrifice is going to be right and there's a sacrifice with love so but I'm saying there's a cost to it yeah I think what has been really tricky is with my husband and he's been amazing but it's not easy when you're caring for for your in-laws despite the relationship and and again trying to establish like the best role for each of us to take you know so and then holiday cover as well so you know eldest son's coming down when we're on holiday so it's just having people around that can do it So I think it's about having, you know, what does good look like, setting some kind of routine up and getting the team in place to be able to help manage all of that and building trust with parents.

Melanie:

And I think just recognising that you shouldn't have to or there's no expectation and actually often not the capacity or ability to be able to do everything yourself and actually just to give yourself permission to be able to build out that team as you quite rightly said. to access the support that you need. And within the BCP area, we're so lucky because there are so many initiatives that are here to support family carers, you know, signposting to organisations, to groups, to services. So if by just building out that support network, you've got that resilience as a family and that you don't feel like everything is on you and I think that also must help to give some perspective to the whole situation and you kind of some clarity as well because you know because you've identified what your skill set is what you're able to bring to the to the situation to the to the table so to speak. and then you're comfortable with that, there's clarity around that, so you know what your role is within all of this, and same for your husband, same for your son, and having that open communication. But that must have led to some quite difficult conversations at various points, be it with your parents or with your husband or your son. Any tips on how to manage those difficult conversations in the early days?

Susanna:

Again, I'm very, very lucky because I teach people to have these uncomfortable conversations and because we have done that in the business as a family business, it was very easy then to have these additional conversations. What was really easy was that there was a really obvious and established need that support needs to be provided. I think that what really helped with the family is that we have the shared values. So I think when you have shared values that really helps difficult conversations because you know ultimately you want to achieve the same thing. It's just a case of how. With uncomfortable conversations, go slow. So I think go slow to go fast. If you try to go fast, you think that you're getting somewhere and actually you've skipped some steps and there's going to be some misunderstandings later on and some disagreements later on. So just go slow. Be clear about what you want to get out of the conversation in the first place. Recognise if you're in a good place to have that conversation. is also a really good thing. Think about when you're going to have it. Do you have time for the conversation or are you in the middle of rushing something and you're just trying to get it done and out of the way? And also layering up conversations. So I think with an uncomfortable conversation, it's about not trying to get from A to Z straight away but just literally just piece by piece by piece because as you said the whole dynamic is changing anyway but I think having real clarity of what are we trying to achieve and what needs to get done And how are we going to get that done? And I would also say, if you can have some health debate, you're going to go, is that OK? Like, am I putting too much on myself as well? So the team would also check me as well to go, actually, is this sensible?

Melanie:

So when you say the team, do you mean your husband and your son? Yeah. They're your team.

Susanna:

Yeah, absolutely.

Melanie:

Amazing. OK, so people are checking you, challenging you, making sure that you're not giving too much of yourself. How do you prioritize any form of self-care when you're in this dynamic? Have you managed to?

Susanna:

What might that look like? I think self-care is hugely important. You mentioned resilience earlier. I would say my resilience has been tested like never before. When you think how difficult it is to run a business, and it is a roller coaster, Whether it is the combination of running the business, Covid and this, I can only describe myself as feeling very thin. I just felt so stretched and potentially fragile, but only in terms of going, you could easily kind of break. It takes time. So one of the things I would just say is that takes time. I like the term active recovery because active recovery is where you're just doing something but you're not exhausting yourself. So you're even just going for a walk is just active recovery. I do think what's really helped is that I had a commitment and a discipline around self-care beforehand, so we're already eating fairly well, we already were doing, I was already doing lots of regular activity anyway and prioritising my health, so I had a foundation of that and it's really important to have that foundation because otherwise it feels how would you fit that in on top of everything else? It becomes another stress, doesn't it? Yeah, so it has to be a foundational piece like the trust, like the relationships. It has to be a foundational piece because if you're trying to become healthy, you're almost depriving yourself of treats and things which you need when you're stretching yourself even further emotionally. And you mentioned earlier that support network. So I think one of the things that I've been really keen on And again, it's something I've really learned is to be very open about this and to go, I'm not the only person who's going through this, to talk about it, to talk quite openly, but also respectfully with a mind to my parents and to listen to and share with other people and just normalise it. And the more we can normalise it, the more we can check in. And it's been great having other people going to me, get more support, get more support, get more support. And eventually, you just need to hear it at the right time. For that to go, actually, I thought I had enough support but actually I don't have enough support because I'm still feeling too stretched.

Melanie:

Yeah, really good advice. I think you made a very pertinent point there that it's about normalising these conversations and I think for so many people they can feel so isolated. when they're going through something like this, that actually just knowing that you're not alone and there's other people that are experiencing similar challenges, even if you're not picking up tips from other people or being given advice or anything else, just knowing you're not alone is so important. So normalising those conversations, I think it's like with many things, isn't it? If we normalise the conversation, suddenly it all becomes a lot easier because we're communicating more openly. Absolutely.

Susanna:

And what I've really found is there are so many more people who are dealing with this than even I imagined. And men as well as women. Women are the ones who will tend to talk about it a lot more. But I also want to encourage men to talk about it as well because it just helps, just relieves some stress. You can just have a laugh about it. That's the main thing. You can laugh about the ridiculous stuff. share tips if you want to share tips and signposting or whatever it is. You mentioned how much support there is around here. One of the key things we've done is to actually set up a lot more of the clubs that they can go to. So there's pretty much, you know, they go to about four or five things every week now and that's kind of replaced what they used to do in terms of the gym. But giving them that support network as well, again, it is invaluable. We're so lucky to be able to have that.

Melanie:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. If we can just circle back around for a moment, almost full circle actually, because we started by talking about the work that you do within your organisation. And do you find with the businesses that you work with, do many of them experience or understand how many of their workforce may be going through exactly what you've been going through? And if so, is there much of an understanding of how to best support people when they are in their work environment?

Susanna:

To be honest I think that business owners, business leaders, business managers are already overwhelmed by all the different things they have to manage. One of which is people and I get far more questions around motivation around things like ADHD, things like menopause. So caring for aging parents is just another thing, right? And it's so difficult. I'm also a mental health first aider. There is so much that an employer and a manager already has to do. childcare and having families where they're juggling with the kids and school pickup. There are so many things that they're already doing anyway, this is just another thing. And I do think that a lot of people don't talk about it with their employers. I think that a lot of employers, and just thinking back to my own kind of experience, sometimes they don't want to ask the questions because they're not quite sure how they can help anyway, when they're trying to juggle so many things. A lot more people now are economically inactive, especially during COVID, they left the workforce, they haven't come back for a number of reasons. Some people have decided to take some time out to retire. Some people are on the NHS waiting list. And so there's a real challenge around recruiting and retaining the talent anyway. And then when you're juggling everything else, and then when we're looking at what might be coming in with new government, there's so much on their plate. Employees have, of course they have a responsibility, they have a responsibility to support and to, again, have a relationship, but I always promote and recommend that individuals look after themselves and manage themselves, whether that's their health or their well-being or their emotional self-regulation, that ability to be able to know how to manage their emotions, to build relationships, to build this trust, understand people's expectations. The more they can do themselves, the more they can have a win-win relationship.

Melanie:

And I guess it comes back to what you were saying about those uncomfortable conversations, so perhaps if people could be encouraged to have those uncomfortable conversations with their employers, it starts to normalise those conversations within the workforce and that then becomes helpful in itself, just knowing that people understand, perhaps you can't, you're not on top form today because you've got other stuff going on. You don't need to share the full details of that, but I think it's just having that understanding from the people that you spend a lot of your time with.

Susanna:

Completely agree. So one of the things we recommend is genuineness. So if you as a, you know, I do think there's a degree of leaving home at home and etc. What I mean by that is you're at work to do a job and the business needs you to do the job so that it can continue to employ you and support the community and support the supply chain, etc. But that checking of, if you're a manager, of going, actually, I'm not having the best day today, so if I look at you funny, it's probably not me looking at you funny, I've just got something on my mind. but equally the team members being able to do the same thing but without expecting each other to fix it. I think that's the key difference.

Melanie:

Totally, I couldn't agree more. It's bringing these conversations out, normalising them, but not expecting somebody else to be then fixing your situation or indeed to feel like by engaging in a conversation like that there's going to be an expectation on you to then action something as a result of that. And I think if we can have more of those conversations where we are just sharing instead of an expectation of then action, I think that would be really helpful for everybody.

Susanna:

Really helpful. And it kind of brings it back full circle into that choice and that bit around making sure that we're not rescuers. So, so many people are motivated by making a difference, by caring, whether it's for their parents or their family or, you know, for the team members. At the same time, we shouldn't be rescuing. So it's a balancing that level of challenge and support because we need to enable people to succeed on their own with the right support around them as well.

Melanie:

Yeah. Yeah. And that's definitely a big conversation and one that perhaps you can come back another time and we can have because I think it's a dynamic which... can be very empowering or disempowering. And I think it's something that people are talking a little bit more about now. But yeah, that would be a wonderful conversation for us to have another time because we're almost out of time now, Susanna. It's been brilliant having you. Thank you so much for so openly sharing your personal experience. And as you said, by being able to do that and doing it respectfully with regards to your parents, You're able to reach so many people and for people to connect with what you've been going through and to resonate with that, with what they're going through themselves. And I think that will be really helpful for a lot of our listeners. So thank you so much. You're clearly a very patient person and you've got so much clarity. I'd love to have your clarity and perspective on life, I think. You do that as a job, you do that within your business. I can't believe you when you say that it was something that you weren't very good at before. So that gives hope for all of us, that perhaps think we're not very good at it.

Susanna:

Yep, I think play to your strengths and recognize if you're really curious about something, certainly about people and that emotional management, emotional intelligence, it's a learnable skill. It's definitely a learnable skill if you're curious enough, if you care enough.

Melanie:

Thank you. I think a lot of people will take heart in hearing that. So thank you again to Susanna for joining us on the Family Carers podcast. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Family Carers podcast and a huge thank you to Susanna Braid Wearing for joining us. I always enjoy catching up with Susanna and I can't wait to see her next time at the business gym, keeping us all on our toes. You can sign up to our newsletter if you want to learn more about what's going on locally. We'll pop the links in the show notes so that you don't miss out. Alright, folks, remember to subscribe and share this with anybody that you think might find it useful. And finally, interesting fact for you, did you know that one in four carers has been in their caregiving role for over 10 years? So it's really important that we can share this information so that they know that they're not alone. Thank you. Thanks, Susanna. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you very much. That's it. We're done. Yeah.